Karum6mm: aga MIKS kõik just JUUTIDELE vett tahavad peal tõmmata? Peaks nagu mingi põhjus ka olema, et terve ajaloo vältel AINULT JUUDID kõikidele jalgu jäävad.
Hito, sellele on lihtne vastus - juudid on nutikad ja osavad. Seetõttu rikkamad ja edukamad. See tekitab jupi kadedust. Esimene põhjus.
Teine põhjus on aga selles, et nad on osavad ka siis, kui nad pehmelt öeldes sigatsevad - Beria, Marx, väidetavalt Lenin, Hitleri lähem kaaskond... Ühesõnaga efektiivsed kõiges - ka sigatsemises. Kindlasti on seda tendentsi ka konfliktis palestiinlastega. Samas ei muuda see sugugi üldist pilti.
Teine põhjus on aga selles, et nad on osavad ka siis, kui nad pehmelt öeldes sigatsevad - Beria, Marx, väidetavalt Lenin, Hitleri lähem kaaskond... Ühesõnaga efektiivsed kõiges - ka sigatsemises. Kindlasti on seda tendentsi ka konfliktis palestiinlastega. Samas ei muuda see sugugi üldist pilti.
just selle sigatsemise pärast neid materdataksegi. Nad peaks väheke tagasihoidlikumad olema. Kasutagu oma tarkust aga võimuiha läheb neil küll üle igasuguste piiride.
Karum6mm, mina alustasin ka täiesti nullist, ehk isegi väikse eel-vimmaga araablaste suhtes selle konflikti uurimist. Ja minu arvates tehakse palestiinlastele liiga.
Meedia - minu arvates on meedia nii hoolega araablasi materdanud, et mingist araabiameelsusest ei saa juttugi olla.
Mis toimub USAs? Juutidel on seal suur võim nii Kongressis kui meedias, selle kaudu hoitakse USAl üsna ilusasti käpp peal. Seega ükskõik mida Iisrael ette võtaks, NATO sinna müttama ikka ei läheks.
Meedia - minu arvates on meedia nii hoolega araablasi materdanud, et mingist araabiameelsusest ei saa juttugi olla.
Mis toimub USAs? Juutidel on seal suur võim nii Kongressis kui meedias, selle kaudu hoitakse USAl üsna ilusasti käpp peal. Seega ükskõik mida Iisrael ette võtaks, NATO sinna müttama ikka ei läheks.
Tru, dough. Palestiinlastele tehakse liiga. Ma selles suhtes ei vaidle. Ma vaidlen vaid selles suhtes, et Iisraelile tehakse veelgi rohkem liiga ning palestiinlastele liiga tegemine on selle otsene resultaat. Ükski araabiariik ei kannata Iisraeli riigi olemasolu silmaotsaski ja sellest ka probleemid, Araablastel oleks aeg aktsepteerida ja "palestiinlastel" assimileeruda. Aga nii see ei lähe. Ühel poolel on esiisade maa, teisel poolel aga hüüdlause "kõigepealt tapame laupäeva rahva, siis aga pühapäeva rahva." Seega kui araabiamaailm on juutidega lõpetanud, on meie kord?
Meedia.... olen huviga jälginud.
CNN - kergelt araabiameelne, kuid annab ka juutidele sõna.
BBC World - nendib fakte. Analüüsis kaldub palestiinlaste poolele.
Euronews - ilmselge araabiamaailma hääletoru.
Kohalikust meediast ma rääkima ei hakka. Tsiteeritakse selliseid väljaandeid nagu Christian Science Monitor (vabandage!!!!!!!). Pealkirjad on araabiameelsed. See oleks nagu trendikas ja "intellectual thing to do." Ainus, mis ma öelda oskan, on "don't believe the hype!"
Meedia.... olen huviga jälginud.
CNN - kergelt araabiameelne, kuid annab ka juutidele sõna.
BBC World - nendib fakte. Analüüsis kaldub palestiinlaste poolele.
Euronews - ilmselge araabiamaailma hääletoru.
Kohalikust meediast ma rääkima ei hakka. Tsiteeritakse selliseid väljaandeid nagu Christian Science Monitor (vabandage!!!!!!!). Pealkirjad on araabiameelsed. See oleks nagu trendikas ja "intellectual thing to do." Ainus, mis ma öelda oskan, on "don't believe the hype!"
KArum6mm, Palestiinlaste kui rahvuse ajalugu küll eriti kaugelt ajaloost otsida ei maksaks. Tegemist on juutide ja araablaste ühise esiisa Abrahami või siis Ibrahimi järeltulijatega. Lihtsalt juutide ja araablaste esiisadel Iisakil ja Ismaelil olid vastavalt erinevad emad. Siit ka kaks erinevat "rahvust" kui sellist.
tuleb tuttav ette?
Respect et sul on oma arvamus, aga Su jutt meenutab mulle venelaste hala et neid eestis terroriseeritakse. Eriti kui arvestada mida venemaa eestiga teha v6ib.. v6i iisrael/usa araabiamaadega. Sinu väited et enamus tarku ja muidu maailma parimaid inimesi on juudid.. noh kas sellest ei tulekski p6hjust otsida äkki? äkki on teised kadedad? v6i juudid ylbavad..
Juudid on alati kokku hoidnud ja nende tugevus just selles peitubki et neid k6ik vihkavad. Aga vihkamine ei tule iseenesest. Miks eestlasi ei vihata? Eino venelased eksole.. Siit ehk m6istad isegi et kysimus on t6lgendamises, ja k6ik inimesed on head ja teevad oma t6ekspidamiste järgi.
Ja see maja kus su muinasjututegelane elas.. keegi ehitas selle ju..
ja see oli yks poiss nimega jumal, kellel on teatud kana juuda rahvaga kitkuda..
v6i mis piiblis öeldigi, et olgu neetud see..
isiklikult juutidega kokku puutunud pole.
ei oma eelarvamusi. aga kui keegi tuleb rääkima juudist kui ohvrist siis ma tuletaks meelde
kasv6i apananskit.. pole vaja eksole kaigele lennata..
Apollo raamatupoes on yks raamat väga kallis mis räägib maailma ajaloost ja alade kujunemisest. minge ostke ja lugege. Ja eks eestlased ole ka kunagi uuralites elanud
ja sealt siia rännanud, sooh, mis nyyd? v6i mis ameerikalsed indiaanlastega teevad?
keegi araab käis välja minuarust geniaalse idee - israel lahkub palestiinast ja araabiamaad tunnustavad israeli. win-win for my eyes!
see on m6nus teema selline mulin :)
eriti meediaelamus - arafat on nagu wuss ja sharon on tige ja kole.
tuleb tuttav ette?
Respect et sul on oma arvamus, aga Su jutt meenutab mulle venelaste hala et neid eestis terroriseeritakse. Eriti kui arvestada mida venemaa eestiga teha v6ib.. v6i iisrael/usa araabiamaadega. Sinu väited et enamus tarku ja muidu maailma parimaid inimesi on juudid.. noh kas sellest ei tulekski p6hjust otsida äkki? äkki on teised kadedad? v6i juudid ylbavad..
Juudid on alati kokku hoidnud ja nende tugevus just selles peitubki et neid k6ik vihkavad. Aga vihkamine ei tule iseenesest. Miks eestlasi ei vihata? Eino venelased eksole.. Siit ehk m6istad isegi et kysimus on t6lgendamises, ja k6ik inimesed on head ja teevad oma t6ekspidamiste järgi.
Ja see maja kus su muinasjututegelane elas.. keegi ehitas selle ju..
ja see oli yks poiss nimega jumal, kellel on teatud kana juuda rahvaga kitkuda..
v6i mis piiblis öeldigi, et olgu neetud see..
isiklikult juutidega kokku puutunud pole.
ei oma eelarvamusi. aga kui keegi tuleb rääkima juudist kui ohvrist siis ma tuletaks meelde
kasv6i apananskit.. pole vaja eksole kaigele lennata..
Apollo raamatupoes on yks raamat väga kallis mis räägib maailma ajaloost ja alade kujunemisest. minge ostke ja lugege. Ja eks eestlased ole ka kunagi uuralites elanud
ja sealt siia rännanud, sooh, mis nyyd? v6i mis ameerikalsed indiaanlastega teevad?
keegi araab käis välja minuarust geniaalse idee - israel lahkub palestiinast ja araabiamaad tunnustavad israeli. win-win for my eyes!
see on m6nus teema selline mulin :)
eriti meediaelamus - arafat on nagu wuss ja sharon on tige ja kole.
riq. Nüüd sa hakkasid küll põhjalikult puusse panema. Mulle meenutab hoopis näiteks palestiinlaste hala TÕESTI venelaste hala, et neid siin terroriseeritakse... Õnneks keskmine venelane on mitme suurusjärgu võrra normaalsem kui keskmine araablane...
Riq, Jumalat pole mõtet antud diskussiooni tuua, sest siis on juutidel kõik trumbid käes. Valitud rahvas, Jumala poolt neile määratud maa jne. Kana kitkumisest juutidega on Piiblis asi suhteliselt kaugel. Ja kirjas on tõesti, et neetud on see, kes juute neab... Kristus oli juut jne... Maailma pääste tuli juutide kaudu jne... Allah on ebajumal, ebajumalakummardajatega Vana Testamendi aegu jus hästi ei käitutud jne... Basically, if God is the same God as christians believe it to be, He's on their side... bigtime. Aga see on juba teoloogiline küsmus ja nagu öeldud, seda siia sisse ei poogiks... Pigem on küsimus tõesti ühekülgses meediakäsitluses ja selles, et enamik kaldub väga ühele poolele, teadmata, mis teisel öelda on...
Apananskilaadsetest sai juba räägitud. Beria jne... Kui juut on teadlane, on ta SUUR teadlane ja kui juut on siga, on ta SUUR siga....
Ja see sinumeelest geniaalne idee... Vabandage! Selle käis välja Saudi-Araabia prints ja see sisaldas Iisraeli lahkumist "okupeeritud" aladelt.... Riq, kuidas Sulle meeldiks, kui Ukraina president leiaks, et kõigi probleemide lahendus on Eesti Vabariigi lahkumine Ida-Virumaalt? Not too nice? Ja rahvusvaheline üldsus plaksutaks käsi. See on sarnane suurshovinistlik käitumine nagu Idanaaber kunagi harrastas...
Golani kõrgendikelt näiteks ei saagi Iisrael lahkuda. Sealt saab praktiliselt terve riik oma vee. Lisaks oleks süürlased siis kohe kohal ja kõrgendikelt nii hea terve riik kirbule võtta. Iga tegelane, kes korragi sõjaväes käind, naerab sealt lahkumise idee kohe välja, meeldivad talle siis juudid või mitte...
Riq, Jumalat pole mõtet antud diskussiooni tuua, sest siis on juutidel kõik trumbid käes. Valitud rahvas, Jumala poolt neile määratud maa jne. Kana kitkumisest juutidega on Piiblis asi suhteliselt kaugel. Ja kirjas on tõesti, et neetud on see, kes juute neab... Kristus oli juut jne... Maailma pääste tuli juutide kaudu jne... Allah on ebajumal, ebajumalakummardajatega Vana Testamendi aegu jus hästi ei käitutud jne... Basically, if God is the same God as christians believe it to be, He's on their side... bigtime. Aga see on juba teoloogiline küsmus ja nagu öeldud, seda siia sisse ei poogiks... Pigem on küsimus tõesti ühekülgses meediakäsitluses ja selles, et enamik kaldub väga ühele poolele, teadmata, mis teisel öelda on...
Apananskilaadsetest sai juba räägitud. Beria jne... Kui juut on teadlane, on ta SUUR teadlane ja kui juut on siga, on ta SUUR siga....
Ja see sinumeelest geniaalne idee... Vabandage! Selle käis välja Saudi-Araabia prints ja see sisaldas Iisraeli lahkumist "okupeeritud" aladelt.... Riq, kuidas Sulle meeldiks, kui Ukraina president leiaks, et kõigi probleemide lahendus on Eesti Vabariigi lahkumine Ida-Virumaalt? Not too nice? Ja rahvusvaheline üldsus plaksutaks käsi. See on sarnane suurshovinistlik käitumine nagu Idanaaber kunagi harrastas...
Golani kõrgendikelt näiteks ei saagi Iisrael lahkuda. Sealt saab praktiliselt terve riik oma vee. Lisaks oleks süürlased siis kohe kohal ja kõrgendikelt nii hea terve riik kirbule võtta. Iga tegelane, kes korragi sõjaväes käind, naerab sealt lahkumise idee kohe välja, meeldivad talle siis juudid või mitte...
et enam boldi ei tuleks
votnii..
votnii..
Iisrael sai ju oma riigi seeläbi et palestiina sai teise poole. mida vaielda?
Sellisest ÜRO-poolt välja mõeldud moodustisest nagu Trans-Jordaania oled kuulnud? Iisrael võiks vabalt väita, et Palestiina riik on olemas ja selle nimi on Jordaania... Selge see, et see oleks demagoogia, kuid selle kultiveerimisega jõuaks üpriski kaugele...
paistab et me pole ainsad kes sel teemal pead murravad minutis ka artikkel..
keda sina kardaksid, kas tuumarelvaga tankisti v6i linguga kirjaoskamatut?
keda sina kardaksid, kas tuumarelvaga tankisti v6i linguga kirjaoskamatut?
Vaatan CNNi.
nii naljakas.
Palestiinlased ja Israeli esindajad räägivad.
Palestiinlane oli igav ja rääkis midagi rahust.
Israeli esindaja pritsib suust tatti ja vehib kätega..
ja üksk6ik mida kysida, on vastuseks sama jutt et terrorism ja pommid ja usa ja bla bla..
tundub et terrorism on sama hype mis oli NEW ECONOMY internetibuumi ajal.
ja siis k6ik moistavad et ei ole terrorismi, on ainult erinevalt väljenduv vägivald..
ja vägivald on väga vana custom..
demagoogia. sama nagu enamuse poliitikutel riigikogus - suva kysimusele vastatakse et
"aga see on minu vaenlaste kättmaks et ma nii hea inimestele olen"
huvitav, kas maailm muutuks kui poliitika tegemine v6rdsustataks rahav6ltsimisega?
öösel utoopilised ideed.. meenutab kahtlaselt ka pohjusi miks apple fallis..
järeldus: maailm p6hineb vähestel seadustel, mida kohandades v6id kogu krempli lahti seletada!
nii naljakas.
Palestiinlased ja Israeli esindajad räägivad.
Palestiinlane oli igav ja rääkis midagi rahust.
Israeli esindaja pritsib suust tatti ja vehib kätega..
ja üksk6ik mida kysida, on vastuseks sama jutt et terrorism ja pommid ja usa ja bla bla..
tundub et terrorism on sama hype mis oli NEW ECONOMY internetibuumi ajal.
ja siis k6ik moistavad et ei ole terrorismi, on ainult erinevalt väljenduv vägivald..
ja vägivald on väga vana custom..
demagoogia. sama nagu enamuse poliitikutel riigikogus - suva kysimusele vastatakse et
"aga see on minu vaenlaste kättmaks et ma nii hea inimestele olen"
huvitav, kas maailm muutuks kui poliitika tegemine v6rdsustataks rahav6ltsimisega?
öösel utoopilised ideed.. meenutab kahtlaselt ka pohjusi miks apple fallis..
järeldus: maailm p6hineb vähestel seadustel, mida kohandades v6id kogu krempli lahti seletada!
isegi yamaha samplerite foorumis ei saa asjast rahu..
aga väga huvitavalt kirjutatud :)
valomatic
Registered User
Posts: 38
(4/4/02 1:29:41 pm)
Reply Re: Israel vs. Palestina
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got this off of anoter BBS and thought this to be very informative: (These are not my words, but quite an interesting read nonetheless).
Same Old Song And Dance
Had I not had to travel to Israel for work, I would most likely not know any more about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict then I did this time two years ago, which is pretty much saying I only know they really like fucking killing each other. But when your boss says you're going to Israel for a week, you sure can turn your attention to world affairs in a fucking hurry. Keep in mind all this violence started on the very day my first trip there ended back in September 2000. I mean we took off and things were great, and when we landed back in New Jersey all the headlines featured the riots breaking out. It was that fast.
Anyway I digress, the purpose of me writing this jazzy little article is to explain to those of you who don't know (or really give a fuck) what all this Middle East shit is about and where it's most likely going. And I’m going to do so without wasting too much time on the trivial details or political backspins.
To understand current events, let’s take a fast look into the past to see if we can’t see a cycle of events here.
So let us first turn back the hands of time, to when life first formed here on Earth. Deep in the muck and protoplasmic slime, we see two groups of single celled organisms. Those from Group-A begin throwing microscopic flecks of stardust at Group-B, who in return fire back with microscopic rubber bullets. Then a cell from Group-A absorbs a bit of methane gas, migrates over to Group-B and promptly explodes, killing not only himself but mortally wounding several Group-B cells in the process. The remaining Group-A cells rejoice, as Group-B cells plan a counterattack after some of their cells learn they can become airborne.
These puddles of muck and slime will, after continental shift, become the lands we know as Israel and the West Bank, and yes I suspect the violence has been going on that long.
Okay now let’s spin our clocks ahead to like the 0 A.D. timeframe. In thirty words or less, Jews were enslaved by various civilizations most of which were settled in the Middle East and whose roots can be traced as the ancestors of the many Arabic countries we know today.
(You read as: Arabs enslaved the Jews since the word "go").
This you-enslave-me-but-you’ll-never-win-our-hearts-and-minds relationship went on for a bazillion fucking generations until eventually the Jews fled their “Promised Land” and found new places to live where they weren't persecuted, and the Arabs absorbed the vacated areas.
Now spin the time dial forward to the late 1930's. The Jews have settled more or less all over Eastern Europe. Enter a short little man with a mustache and a big gas bill, and with the conclusion of WWII we also see the conclusion of some 6,000,000 more Jews. Well, at the end of WWII, the powers that be (the US along with Britain, the Soviet Union, and France -- hahaha just kidding about France) held the Jews up and said, "Holy shit you poor people, you've had the living shit kicked out of you for some few thousand years or so. Tell us where would like to live in complete sanctuary for the rest of your days?"
As I recall, they narrowed it down to some place in Africa (where is inconsequential now so if you know don't tell me I don't give a fuck) and some land in the Middle East, which we now know as Israel. Well it doesn't take Colombo to figure out where they chose, and the US more or less said to the Palestinians, "Hey nice place now get the fuck out." The Palestinians were pushed out, and the Jews returned to the land they held way back when people wrote on walls with rocks.
Presto-whiz-bango, the State of Israel was officially born. Queue bands, music, banners, food, etc, etc, etc.
Now the Israelis -- as they were now officially called -- said to themselves, "Okay we've been the party bitches for everyone pretty much since the beginning of recorded time, especially with this Holocaust thing, so we have to make sure this will never happen again." And so it was decreed that every Israeli citizen, both male and female, would spend time in the military so everyone knew how to defend their civilization. So they trained and trained and prepared and prepared, all to insure the persecution of their kind would never happen on such a monumental scale again.
Now spin the clock forward to 1967, and we find Israeli surrounded like they are today - pretty much by angry Arabs -- Syria to the North, Jordan to the East, and Egypt to the South. Israel is bordered by the Mediterranean Sea on the West for those of you geographically challenged. Well the president of Egypt at the time decided that he didn't want Israel to exist any more, so he picked up his Bat-phone and dialed all those Arab states surrounding Israel, and called upon them to wage one of their Holy Wars to, “rid the world of the Zionists pigs." (“Zionist” being a cool catch phrase for a Jew).
Israel, being prepared this time and determined not to be beaten like a rented mule, deciding they would be having none of this and popped the top on the “Extra Strength Can of Whoop Ass”. Thus commenced the "Six Day War".
Why’d they call it the Six Day War, you ask? Because that's how long it took Israel to beat the fucking snot out of all three of their attackers. Six fucking days. You think we whipped Iraq or Afghanistan's ass quick? Hell no. June 5th, 1967 Israel beat the fuck out of Egypt, the Jordanians on the 7th, and finally the Syrians on the 9th.
So by the time the 11th rolled around, the Israeli soldiers were back in streets of Tel Aviv doing the, "We Kicked Your Fucking Arab Ass Dance", having captured lands known as the West Bank (where the Palestinians are living), the Gaza Strip (from the Egyptians), and the Golan Heights (from the Syrians). Thus the establishment of the Israelis as people not to be fucked with and their, "If you ain't Jewish, you ain't shit," attitude.
It's important to note here that in the West Bank are Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and a snot load of other very religious places that hold high regard in both Judaism and Islam. And there’s no separation between them either, both Jewish and Islamic holy places all mixed in together to a “Berlin Wall” type solution just wouldn’t work.
These spankings kept things quiet save for a few skirmishes in the 1970's, until 1982 when Israel decided to lay the pimp-smack down on Lebanon. The key thing to remember here is one of the commanders in the Israeli forces at the time was a General Ariel Sharon (name ring a bell?), who not only orchestrated many of the attacks on the Lebanese army, but also is accused by many Arab nations of ordering the slaughter of a shit load of Lebanese civilians.
Now, whether or not this slaughter actually happened -- both sides claim opposite stories and I don't fucking know who to believe to be honest -- doesn't really make a fucking difference. The point is the Arabs believe he did and nobody, but nobody, is going to change their minds. In their eyes he's a butcher who kills women and children, period, end of discussion.
Again there were a few little skirmishes in the 1990’s, but again nothing too major and all is quiet for a while until the year 2000 (see a twenty’ish year cycle here?). The existing cease fire between the Arabs and the Israelis was threadbare after all this time, and it's now that the retired Ariel Sharon makes the dumbass decision to visit one of the Jew’s most religious places (good) but does so on one of the most holy days in the Islamic faith (bad). The Arabs go fucking nuts withthe return of "the butcher", riots start, bullets fly, and the rest we can get off CNN.
So for eighteen months now, it's been Arabs throw rocks, Israelis shoot bullets. Arabs shoot bullets, Israelis use tanks. Arabs make suicide bombs, Israelis launch planes. Then things cool down for a few days, maybe a week, and we start all over again with Arabs throwing rocks, Israelis shooting, and we're fucking back to square one.
In the past few weeks we've seen a few dashes of hope that this whole Middle East violence thing might be wrapping up. The Saudi peace plan looked most promising in my opinion, but even that's doomed to fail. Why? Well, the deal is Israel gives back the land they occupied back from the Six Day War -- a big bone of contention for many Arab countries -- and in return Israel will “officially be recognized” by those same Arab nations.
Riiiiiight. So that “recognition” will last about three to four weeks, and then one of the Arabic nations will snub their nose at either Israel or Ariel Sharon or both, and the rest will inevitably follow suit. Israel will then cry foul, the US will agree, and thus we’ll be secured for another twenty years in the eyes of Arab nations everywhere as, “the American capitalist dog, masters of the puppet Sharon and his Zionist regime.”
Then one of the militant Palestinian groups - not happy with getting their land back but will instead want to push the issue to a boiling point, will throw a rock at Israeli border guards. This will of course lead to the Israelis shooting back with rubber bullets (sound familiar?), which will lead to more rocks being thrown until an Israeli soldier gets seriously wounded, then the real bullets come in and, well, I guess I don’t have to tell you the rest. You already know it, now don’t you?
Look I’d love to hold your hand and sing “Kum’bi’yah” with the rest of your friends -- I’d like to see peace in the Middle East as much as anyone else, I’d get to travel again, gas prices would go down, and these people would be off my fucking news -- but the simple fact is it’s never, ever, ever, ever going to happen. Never. Ever. Period. The best anyone is ever going to do is orchestrate a ceasefire which will be doomed to fail before it even begins. The fires of hatred glow brighter here than in any other place on earth, and there’s no politician or peacemaker with gloves thick enough to handle it for more than a few seconds at a time.
aga väga huvitavalt kirjutatud :)
valomatic
Registered User
Posts: 38
(4/4/02 1:29:41 pm)
Reply Re: Israel vs. Palestina
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got this off of anoter BBS and thought this to be very informative: (These are not my words, but quite an interesting read nonetheless).
Same Old Song And Dance
Had I not had to travel to Israel for work, I would most likely not know any more about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict then I did this time two years ago, which is pretty much saying I only know they really like fucking killing each other. But when your boss says you're going to Israel for a week, you sure can turn your attention to world affairs in a fucking hurry. Keep in mind all this violence started on the very day my first trip there ended back in September 2000. I mean we took off and things were great, and when we landed back in New Jersey all the headlines featured the riots breaking out. It was that fast.
Anyway I digress, the purpose of me writing this jazzy little article is to explain to those of you who don't know (or really give a fuck) what all this Middle East shit is about and where it's most likely going. And I’m going to do so without wasting too much time on the trivial details or political backspins.
To understand current events, let’s take a fast look into the past to see if we can’t see a cycle of events here.
So let us first turn back the hands of time, to when life first formed here on Earth. Deep in the muck and protoplasmic slime, we see two groups of single celled organisms. Those from Group-A begin throwing microscopic flecks of stardust at Group-B, who in return fire back with microscopic rubber bullets. Then a cell from Group-A absorbs a bit of methane gas, migrates over to Group-B and promptly explodes, killing not only himself but mortally wounding several Group-B cells in the process. The remaining Group-A cells rejoice, as Group-B cells plan a counterattack after some of their cells learn they can become airborne.
These puddles of muck and slime will, after continental shift, become the lands we know as Israel and the West Bank, and yes I suspect the violence has been going on that long.
Okay now let’s spin our clocks ahead to like the 0 A.D. timeframe. In thirty words or less, Jews were enslaved by various civilizations most of which were settled in the Middle East and whose roots can be traced as the ancestors of the many Arabic countries we know today.
(You read as: Arabs enslaved the Jews since the word "go").
This you-enslave-me-but-you’ll-never-win-our-hearts-and-minds relationship went on for a bazillion fucking generations until eventually the Jews fled their “Promised Land” and found new places to live where they weren't persecuted, and the Arabs absorbed the vacated areas.
Now spin the time dial forward to the late 1930's. The Jews have settled more or less all over Eastern Europe. Enter a short little man with a mustache and a big gas bill, and with the conclusion of WWII we also see the conclusion of some 6,000,000 more Jews. Well, at the end of WWII, the powers that be (the US along with Britain, the Soviet Union, and France -- hahaha just kidding about France) held the Jews up and said, "Holy shit you poor people, you've had the living shit kicked out of you for some few thousand years or so. Tell us where would like to live in complete sanctuary for the rest of your days?"
As I recall, they narrowed it down to some place in Africa (where is inconsequential now so if you know don't tell me I don't give a fuck) and some land in the Middle East, which we now know as Israel. Well it doesn't take Colombo to figure out where they chose, and the US more or less said to the Palestinians, "Hey nice place now get the fuck out." The Palestinians were pushed out, and the Jews returned to the land they held way back when people wrote on walls with rocks.
Presto-whiz-bango, the State of Israel was officially born. Queue bands, music, banners, food, etc, etc, etc.
Now the Israelis -- as they were now officially called -- said to themselves, "Okay we've been the party bitches for everyone pretty much since the beginning of recorded time, especially with this Holocaust thing, so we have to make sure this will never happen again." And so it was decreed that every Israeli citizen, both male and female, would spend time in the military so everyone knew how to defend their civilization. So they trained and trained and prepared and prepared, all to insure the persecution of their kind would never happen on such a monumental scale again.
Now spin the clock forward to 1967, and we find Israeli surrounded like they are today - pretty much by angry Arabs -- Syria to the North, Jordan to the East, and Egypt to the South. Israel is bordered by the Mediterranean Sea on the West for those of you geographically challenged. Well the president of Egypt at the time decided that he didn't want Israel to exist any more, so he picked up his Bat-phone and dialed all those Arab states surrounding Israel, and called upon them to wage one of their Holy Wars to, “rid the world of the Zionists pigs." (“Zionist” being a cool catch phrase for a Jew).
Israel, being prepared this time and determined not to be beaten like a rented mule, deciding they would be having none of this and popped the top on the “Extra Strength Can of Whoop Ass”. Thus commenced the "Six Day War".
Why’d they call it the Six Day War, you ask? Because that's how long it took Israel to beat the fucking snot out of all three of their attackers. Six fucking days. You think we whipped Iraq or Afghanistan's ass quick? Hell no. June 5th, 1967 Israel beat the fuck out of Egypt, the Jordanians on the 7th, and finally the Syrians on the 9th.
So by the time the 11th rolled around, the Israeli soldiers were back in streets of Tel Aviv doing the, "We Kicked Your Fucking Arab Ass Dance", having captured lands known as the West Bank (where the Palestinians are living), the Gaza Strip (from the Egyptians), and the Golan Heights (from the Syrians). Thus the establishment of the Israelis as people not to be fucked with and their, "If you ain't Jewish, you ain't shit," attitude.
It's important to note here that in the West Bank are Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and a snot load of other very religious places that hold high regard in both Judaism and Islam. And there’s no separation between them either, both Jewish and Islamic holy places all mixed in together to a “Berlin Wall” type solution just wouldn’t work.
These spankings kept things quiet save for a few skirmishes in the 1970's, until 1982 when Israel decided to lay the pimp-smack down on Lebanon. The key thing to remember here is one of the commanders in the Israeli forces at the time was a General Ariel Sharon (name ring a bell?), who not only orchestrated many of the attacks on the Lebanese army, but also is accused by many Arab nations of ordering the slaughter of a shit load of Lebanese civilians.
Now, whether or not this slaughter actually happened -- both sides claim opposite stories and I don't fucking know who to believe to be honest -- doesn't really make a fucking difference. The point is the Arabs believe he did and nobody, but nobody, is going to change their minds. In their eyes he's a butcher who kills women and children, period, end of discussion.
Again there were a few little skirmishes in the 1990’s, but again nothing too major and all is quiet for a while until the year 2000 (see a twenty’ish year cycle here?). The existing cease fire between the Arabs and the Israelis was threadbare after all this time, and it's now that the retired Ariel Sharon makes the dumbass decision to visit one of the Jew’s most religious places (good) but does so on one of the most holy days in the Islamic faith (bad). The Arabs go fucking nuts withthe return of "the butcher", riots start, bullets fly, and the rest we can get off CNN.
So for eighteen months now, it's been Arabs throw rocks, Israelis shoot bullets. Arabs shoot bullets, Israelis use tanks. Arabs make suicide bombs, Israelis launch planes. Then things cool down for a few days, maybe a week, and we start all over again with Arabs throwing rocks, Israelis shooting, and we're fucking back to square one.
In the past few weeks we've seen a few dashes of hope that this whole Middle East violence thing might be wrapping up. The Saudi peace plan looked most promising in my opinion, but even that's doomed to fail. Why? Well, the deal is Israel gives back the land they occupied back from the Six Day War -- a big bone of contention for many Arab countries -- and in return Israel will “officially be recognized” by those same Arab nations.
Riiiiiight. So that “recognition” will last about three to four weeks, and then one of the Arabic nations will snub their nose at either Israel or Ariel Sharon or both, and the rest will inevitably follow suit. Israel will then cry foul, the US will agree, and thus we’ll be secured for another twenty years in the eyes of Arab nations everywhere as, “the American capitalist dog, masters of the puppet Sharon and his Zionist regime.”
Then one of the militant Palestinian groups - not happy with getting their land back but will instead want to push the issue to a boiling point, will throw a rock at Israeli border guards. This will of course lead to the Israelis shooting back with rubber bullets (sound familiar?), which will lead to more rocks being thrown until an Israeli soldier gets seriously wounded, then the real bullets come in and, well, I guess I don’t have to tell you the rest. You already know it, now don’t you?
Look I’d love to hold your hand and sing “Kum’bi’yah” with the rest of your friends -- I’d like to see peace in the Middle East as much as anyone else, I’d get to travel again, gas prices would go down, and these people would be off my fucking news -- but the simple fact is it’s never, ever, ever, ever going to happen. Never. Ever. Period. The best anyone is ever going to do is orchestrate a ceasefire which will be doomed to fail before it even begins. The fires of hatred glow brighter here than in any other place on earth, and there’s no politician or peacemaker with gloves thick enough to handle it for more than a few seconds at a time.
Minu teada leiutasid terrorismi kaasaegsel viisil juudid. 1948. a lasid õhku inglaste hotelli. Omad vitsad peksavad.
Tooks sisse paralleeli Eestist -Narva tagusesse alasse võiks ju ka Eesti tangid sisse viia ja terrorismi välja juurida ja aladele Eesti uusasundisi ehitada ja Peispsi järv ka kindlalt ülioluline veeallikas. Huvitav miks me seda ei tee? Ikkagi on nii, et kel jõud sel õigus. Võrrelda Eestit ja Venemaad ning Iisralit ja Araabiamaid on kohatu.
Teiseks on siiski suureks probleemiks Iisraeli enda lõhestatus - kui lähedal tegelikult rahule oldi? Siis üks peaministri tapmine juudi ekstremisti poolt ja sõjakurjategijast praeguse peaministri külaskäik valimisvõidu nimel pühale mäele ja kogu asi oligi untsus.
Teiseks on siiski suureks probleemiks Iisraeli enda lõhestatus - kui lähedal tegelikult rahule oldi? Siis üks peaministri tapmine juudi ekstremisti poolt ja sõjakurjategijast praeguse peaministri külaskäik valimisvõidu nimel pühale mäele ja kogu asi oligi untsus.
kuidas siis kaasaaegse iisreali loomine välja näha võis...
In 1917 Chaim Weizmann, scientist, statesperson, and Zionist, persuaded the British government to issue a statement favoring the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine. The statement, which became known as the Balfour Declaration, was, in part, payment to the Jews for their support of the British against the Turks during World War I. After the war, the League of Nations ratified the declaration and in 1922 appointed Britain to rule Palestine.
This course of events caused Jews to be optimistic about the eventual establishment of a homeland. Their optimism inspired the immigration to Palestine of Jews from many countries, particularly from Germany when Nazi persecution of Jews began. The arrival of many Jewish immigrants in the 1930s awakened Arab fears that Palestine would become a national homeland for the Jews. By 1936 guerrilla fighting had broken out between the Jews and the Arabs. Unable to maintain peace, Britain issued a white paper in 1939 that restricted Jewish immigration into Palestine. The Jews, feeling betrayed, bitterly opposed the policy and looked to the United States for support.
While President Franklin D. Roosevelt appeared to be sympathetic to the Jewish cause, his assurances to the Arabs that the United States would not intervene without consulting both parties caused public uncertainty about his position. When Harry S. Truman took office, he made clear that his sympathies were with the Jews and accepted the Balfour Declaration, explaining that it was in keeping with former President Woodrow Wilson's principle of "self-determination." Truman initiated several studies of the Palestine situation that supported his belief that, as a result of the Holocaust, Jews were oppressed and also in need of a homeland. Throughout the Roosevelt and Truman administrations, the Departments of War and State, recognizing the possibility of a Soviet-Arab connection and the potential Arab restriction on oil supplies to this country, advised against U.S. intervention on behalf of the Jews.
Britain and the United States, in a joint effort to examine the dilemma, established the "Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry." In April 1946, the committee submitted recommendations that Palestine not be dominated by either Arabs or Jews. It concluded that attempts to establish nationhood or independence would result in civil strife; that a trusteeship agreement aimed at bringing Jews and Arabs together should be established by the United Nations; that full Jewish immigration be allowed into Palestine; and that two autonomous states be established with a strong central government to control Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and the Negev, the southernmost section of Palestine.
British, Arab, and Jewish reactions to the recommendations were not favorable. Jewish terrorism in Palestine antagonized the British, and by February 1947 Arab-Jewish communications had collapsed. Britain, anxious to rid itself of the problem, set the United Nations in motion, formally requesting on April 2, 1947, that the U.N. General Assembly set up the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP). This committee recommended that the British mandate over Palestine be ended and that the territory be partitioned into two states. Jewish reaction was mixed--some wanted control of all of Palestine; others realized that partition spelled hope for their dream of a homeland. The Arabs were not at all agreeable to the UNSCOP plan. In October the Arab League Council directed the governments of its member states to move troops to the Palestine border. Meanwhile, President Truman instructed the State Department to support the U.N. plan, and, reluctantly it did so. On November 29, 1947, the partition plan was passed by the U.N. General Assembly.
At midnight on May 14, 1948, the Provisional Government of Israel proclaimed a new State of Israel. On that same date, the United States, in the person of President Truman, recognized the provisional Jewish government as de facto authority of the Jewish state (de jure recognition was extended on January 31, 1949). The U.S. delegates to the U.N. and top-ranking State Department officials were angered that Truman released his recognition statement to the press without notifying them first. On May 15, 1948, the first day of Israeli Independence and exactly one year after UNSCOP was established, Arab armies invaded Israel and the first Arab-Israeli war began.
niimodi õpetatakse lombi taga ajalugu http://www.nara.gov/education/teaching/israel/ishome.html
In 1917 Chaim Weizmann, scientist, statesperson, and Zionist, persuaded the British government to issue a statement favoring the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine. The statement, which became known as the Balfour Declaration, was, in part, payment to the Jews for their support of the British against the Turks during World War I. After the war, the League of Nations ratified the declaration and in 1922 appointed Britain to rule Palestine.
This course of events caused Jews to be optimistic about the eventual establishment of a homeland. Their optimism inspired the immigration to Palestine of Jews from many countries, particularly from Germany when Nazi persecution of Jews began. The arrival of many Jewish immigrants in the 1930s awakened Arab fears that Palestine would become a national homeland for the Jews. By 1936 guerrilla fighting had broken out between the Jews and the Arabs. Unable to maintain peace, Britain issued a white paper in 1939 that restricted Jewish immigration into Palestine. The Jews, feeling betrayed, bitterly opposed the policy and looked to the United States for support.
While President Franklin D. Roosevelt appeared to be sympathetic to the Jewish cause, his assurances to the Arabs that the United States would not intervene without consulting both parties caused public uncertainty about his position. When Harry S. Truman took office, he made clear that his sympathies were with the Jews and accepted the Balfour Declaration, explaining that it was in keeping with former President Woodrow Wilson's principle of "self-determination." Truman initiated several studies of the Palestine situation that supported his belief that, as a result of the Holocaust, Jews were oppressed and also in need of a homeland. Throughout the Roosevelt and Truman administrations, the Departments of War and State, recognizing the possibility of a Soviet-Arab connection and the potential Arab restriction on oil supplies to this country, advised against U.S. intervention on behalf of the Jews.
Britain and the United States, in a joint effort to examine the dilemma, established the "Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry." In April 1946, the committee submitted recommendations that Palestine not be dominated by either Arabs or Jews. It concluded that attempts to establish nationhood or independence would result in civil strife; that a trusteeship agreement aimed at bringing Jews and Arabs together should be established by the United Nations; that full Jewish immigration be allowed into Palestine; and that two autonomous states be established with a strong central government to control Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and the Negev, the southernmost section of Palestine.
British, Arab, and Jewish reactions to the recommendations were not favorable. Jewish terrorism in Palestine antagonized the British, and by February 1947 Arab-Jewish communications had collapsed. Britain, anxious to rid itself of the problem, set the United Nations in motion, formally requesting on April 2, 1947, that the U.N. General Assembly set up the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP). This committee recommended that the British mandate over Palestine be ended and that the territory be partitioned into two states. Jewish reaction was mixed--some wanted control of all of Palestine; others realized that partition spelled hope for their dream of a homeland. The Arabs were not at all agreeable to the UNSCOP plan. In October the Arab League Council directed the governments of its member states to move troops to the Palestine border. Meanwhile, President Truman instructed the State Department to support the U.N. plan, and, reluctantly it did so. On November 29, 1947, the partition plan was passed by the U.N. General Assembly.
At midnight on May 14, 1948, the Provisional Government of Israel proclaimed a new State of Israel. On that same date, the United States, in the person of President Truman, recognized the provisional Jewish government as de facto authority of the Jewish state (de jure recognition was extended on January 31, 1949). The U.S. delegates to the U.N. and top-ranking State Department officials were angered that Truman released his recognition statement to the press without notifying them first. On May 15, 1948, the first day of Israeli Independence and exactly one year after UNSCOP was established, Arab armies invaded Israel and the first Arab-Israeli war began.
niimodi õpetatakse lombi taga ajalugu http://www.nara.gov/education/teaching/israel/ishome.html
alo54... Ida-Virumaale tanke saatma... et ei ole hea paraleel? Kas sa siis ka nii mõtleksid, kui mingi sealne tegelane näiteks Tallinna Kaubamajas ennast õhku laseks koos paarikümne inimesga? Või siis mõnes pubis, kus sina ja mina regulaarselt käime? Kui sealt regulaarselt tuleks signaale, et eestlaste õige koht on meres? Sealsete elanike sõber Venemaa Eestit pidevalt ähvardaks? Ja sellele sa vastu ju ei hakka, et Ida-Virumaa on Eesti osa - vähemalt enamuse eestlaste õiglustunde kohaselt?
Seega on paraleel paraku olemas. Ja ongi nii, et kel jõud sel õigus. Araablasi on rohkem, araabiariigid on suuremad ja enamus maailma meediast on nende hääletoru.
Seega on paraleel paraku olemas. Ja ongi nii, et kel jõud sel õigus. Araablasi on rohkem, araabiariigid on suuremad ja enamus maailma meediast on nende hääletoru.
Aga äkki oleks eestis siis JUST NIIMODI kui me käituks nagu israel?
Suvalise mängu v6ib v6tta kokku viie tähega:
*Players
*Added values (of players)
*Rules (or how game can be played)
*Tactics (or how exactly game is currently palyed)
*Scope (or what is the scope of the game?)
S6ltuvalt skoobist (israel/palestiina, israel/araabiamaad, israel/palestiina/maailm) s6ltub ka kes on mängus (palyers), ja sellest s6ltub kes on n6rgem (added values). Kui usa juba mängus on siis on usa liitlane tugevam.
Tactics on araabidel pommid ning israelil tankid. ja poliitiliselt punnitab palestiina ehk rohkem kui israel. EU on naiteks palestiina poolel, isegi usa kaldub palestiina poolele. Rules on see, et terrorism=paha,tankida=hea.
no siit v6ib juba ise mänge konstrueerida..
*Players
*Added values (of players)
*Rules (or how game can be played)
*Tactics (or how exactly game is currently palyed)
*Scope (or what is the scope of the game?)
S6ltuvalt skoobist (israel/palestiina, israel/araabiamaad, israel/palestiina/maailm) s6ltub ka kes on mängus (palyers), ja sellest s6ltub kes on n6rgem (added values). Kui usa juba mängus on siis on usa liitlane tugevam.
Tactics on araabidel pommid ning israelil tankid. ja poliitiliselt punnitab palestiina ehk rohkem kui israel. EU on naiteks palestiina poolel, isegi usa kaldub palestiina poolele. Rules on see, et terrorism=paha,tankida=hea.
no siit v6ib juba ise mänge konstrueerida..